We keep giving their albums good reviews, so Lambgoat reviewer Cory put down his pen long enough to speak with Willowtip Records owner and mastermind, Jason Tipton, about his label.

Where does the name Willowtip come from?

When I originally began the label, I was doing it with one of my friends and we kept trying to come up with a name for the label and at the time there weren't any plans for the label, we were just putting out this record for fun and all that and needed a label name for the jacket. We couldn't really come up with anything and ultimately I came up with this idea to call the label Willowtip combing parts of our two last names Willosin and Tipton. So the name really doesn't mean anything and I really don't even like it, especially since the person I started the label with isn't involved at all and was only involved for that one release... but, people began to know the name so when I thought of changing, it was probably too late anyways.

How did you fund your first few releases? Did you take loans, borrow money, etc.?

The first release I put out was just a 7" and it was actually a split label release, so the way you fund the label is just to take the funds from that release and keep putting it into the next release. Willowtip has never had any loans, money borrowing, or anything like that, which I guess has hurt and helped in some ways...but the initial releases were always funded from proceeds from the last release or any money I could get.

How has your direction as a label shifted since those initial releases?

Well, many of the first releases were from bands like Creation is Crucifixion, [fate of] Icarus, and Circle of Dead Children, all bands that I was friends with whom were from Pittsburgh. Initially, all of the bands I was working with were from my area. Luckily, these early releases proved to be pretty successful and they were well received, so eventually I began to work with some bands that I was a fan of and weren't from Pittsburgh. In 2000, I was graduating college and facing the problem of having to find a job and decide essentially what I wanted to try to do with my life for job, career, etc. and ultimately I decided that I should try to give this label idea my full attention and see what could be achieved. So things changed from just putting out albums for friends for fun to trying to make this a "real" label. Musically however, I have always just released material from bands that I really liked and that will never change. I am not concerned necessarily in thinking how much an album is going to sell or trying to put out stuff that I know kids will eat up. I just put out stuff I really like personally and hope that others will as well.

Out of curiosity, just how many copies does a typical Willowtip release sell?

Most releases sell around 2 - 4 thousand copies usually it seems. Some more, some less.

Which release has sold the most copies thus far?

There really isn't a clear cut winner. There are a bunch between 4-5 thousand like Arsis, Ion Dissonance, Cephalic Carnage, Creation is Crucifixion - automata, Misery Index / Commit Suicide split. There really isn't one that is far and away a better seller than all the rest.

So are you actually making a living at this? Do you have another job that pays the bills or is this it?

This is it. The label is pretty solid now finally, there were some really tough times trying to do this in the past but I always found a way to get by. But today, yeah, this is all I do.

That's pretty impressive.

Or unimpressive depending on how you look at it, I guess, haha.

So is there any one release that you've been particularly proud of? One that stands out above the rest?

I'm not sure. In my mind this label really started with the release of the Upheaval album since that was the first band outside of Pittsburgh that I worked with. Then releasing material from Cephalic Carnage was great because they were the first band that was really established that I released something from. I'm extremely proud of pretty much all the releases I've put out but if I had to pick one it would be the Necrophagist - Onset of Putrefaction re-issue. The fact that this was ever even released is crazy. I mean, I worked on that thing forever and so did Muhammed [Suicmez]. I first heard Onset in 2000 and I started emailing Muhammed, then asking about releasing it in the US and stuff. Muhammed always wanted it to happen, but things were a complete mess. He had signed a really bad contract and his label had gone out of business and the rights to that album were sold to another company. So this company owned the rights to the CD and they were near impossible for anyone to deal with, in fact they weren't doing their job at all. They didn't really care at all about the band, didn't have the CD in press. It was a complete mess. We couldn't even get this company to communicate let alone talk business. Such a mess. Ultimately, Muhammed got a lawyer to help him with things and he ended up getting the rights back for the album and after initially talking about releasing the CD in 2000, it came out in 2004. So that album stands out alot because of how much time and how much bullshit it took to get it out, not to mention that I think it's one of the greatest albums in the history of metal.

That seems like quite an ordeal.

It was a nightmare. It's one of the many reasons I have so much respect for Muhammed and what he does with Necrophagist.

Based on the output of your label and your association with bands like Arsis, Capharnaum, Necrophagist, etc., it seems like your tastes lean more towards the technical side of things. Is it ok if a band's technical ability outshines their songwriting talent? Is that ever a consideration either in your listening to or releasing of bands or albums?

My tastes most definitely lean towards bands that play with a technical flair. I would say that technical death metal, when its done correctly, is my favorite genre for sure. It just seems to be one of the few styles that really really holds my interest over a long period of time, one that you continually discover new things in with each listen. I am not really concerned with how "tech" something is though or anything like that. That's not what i am looking for. I care about songs. I care about the songwriting first and foremost for sure, because ultimately if I dont get the songs stuck in my head, if I don't find myself sitting having these songs and riffs go through my head, it's probably not something I really like. There are so many bands today that have amazing technical abilities but cant write a song to save their lives. It's all a matter of opinion, but to me, all of the bands like Necrophagist, Arsis, Capharnaum, Alarum... alot of the material I have released is quite technical but I think all of these bands are great songwriters as well. Bands that play technical music well also know how to write great songs. They can write material that is memorable while still keeping the technicality, but I don't think the technicality is important to the bands I've been working with, it's just something that comes natural in the songwriting process and when you reach a certain level of playing ability, it comes naturally. It's ok for a band to do whatever they want to do to make themselves happy, but for me, it's not something I'm interested in. Everyone has different tastes though, and there is no doubt many wouldn't find material from Crowpath, Necrophagist, etc. catchy but to me, it is.

It's obvious that from a commercial standpoint, more abrasive hardcore and metal are much more mainstream than they were five years ago. Has this affected you or your artists at all? Has this trend benefitted you or them particularly?

Obviously if heavier music is getting popular there is the possibility of a trickle down effect for someone to go from more mainstream metal to more underground metal, so I guess as a whole it can be good for the metal community. However, I really don't think this has helped me much at all directly. Indirectly, yes you can make the argument that it has helped the label to perhaps sell a few records by people looking to check things out, it can help some fans to dig deeper. It's both good and bad. You may get some new fans into metal, but are these ever the type of kids that would have any interest in all in what I'm doing? I'm not sure. It also affects me alot of times too, I think, when it seems people that have power (the press, festival and show bookers and promoters, etc.) only want to cover what is the big band and what is the big trend and care first and foremost about what is popular and what sells. Many today do not care about quality, they care about what is popular and what will ultimately make them more money. However, there are always a select few that care about supporting things they enjoy no matter how small or underground they are, so there is always a chance more mainstream acceptance can benefit to a larger extent. Like when System Of A Down took Dillinger Escape Plan out on tour, or when Mr. Bungle took them out when they were starting, or even to an extent how Tool took Meshuggah out on tour. That helped those bands a ton, I'm sure. So ultimately, to try to answer the question, mainstream acceptance of hardcore and metal has probably both hurt and helped a label like mine in different ways.

So what records have come out recently (either metal or otherwise) that really impressed you?

Enslaved - Isa, Necrophagist - Epitaph, Woods of Ypres - Pursuit of the Sun and Allure of the Earth and Immolation - Harnessing Ruin are some of the recent albums I've really enjoyed. Aside from albums I put out, of course.

Right. One last question about your releases before we move on to the more controversial questions. It was refreshing to see a real metal label put out a record so simultaneously inspired and absurd as Big Fat Box of Shit (Crotchduster). Why are so many musicians, fans and labels seemingly afraid to poke fun at metal?

I don't really think there is anything like Crotchduster. I think generally everything in metal is way too serious. All of these posed photos, extreme vocals, extreme everything and ultimately, Crotchduster is the opposite of all of that. It's supossed to be funny and completely unserious. I guess metal is supossed to be a lifestyle and all this stuff, but to me it's just music. I think a lot of people don't poke fun at it just because how seriously some people do take it, like you need to have the most brutal lyrics, vocals, evil poses, etc. Everything gets taken to extremes though, and i think Crotchduster was just meant for once to try to have fun with metal and poke humor into it, even if it was done on a 12 year-old level.

Who the hell is "Williams?" I've listened to the record over and over and still don't think I quite get it.

I believe it's just a character Jason made up, but you would have to ask him. I think it sorta explains things on their website.

Alright. Moving on... what metal or hardcore record label do you respect the most?

I have a large amount of respect for any label that can become successful in this day and age without getting everything handed to them to start with. Some labels today are popping up that, somehow, it's like they get everything handed to them on a silver platter: Great distribution, unlimited power and money to sign any band they please. Any label that works and makes themselves, I have a great deal of respect for even if I don't necessarily like all the music they put out. I don't think there is one that I respect the most or more than another, it's more of just respecting labels that I know have had to go through the same things I have. That I respect because it's not easy. If you want to talk about what label I like the most just bands-wise today, it's probably Listenable Records.

Is there any one label that you don't have that respect for?

Yes, there definitely is.

And?

Well, I mean I understand how hard it is to make it in this business and to pay bills, but I mean... it' tough for me to have alot of respect for some of these labels that start up and through one way or another without having paid any dues, in my opinion. They have everything handed to them. Part of it, I guess, is jealousy, knowing the things I have had to go through, but when you see what they do after getting all the tools you need to be successful handed to them, I just start to feel like "Holy fucking christ, I can only imagine where I would be today if I had all of that to start with." You see some of these newer labels that somehow get tied in with bigger labels and you see what they do with their tools. Then you just have labels that are signing any trend band they can to try to cash in. They'll sign anything they think will sell.

Not naming any names. How very... diplomatic of you. Ok. Two more. Where would you like to see Willowtip in ten years?

Well, in ten years I'll be 37. Jeez... give me a minute, this one is harder than I thought. I just want this label to reach a level where I have the money, power, and respect from everyone involved in this industry and scene for these bands to have every opportunity to do anything they want. So that I have bands that can live off of playing this type of music and be well known. To just keep releasing the same quality of music, and perhaps for the Willowtip catalog of the early 2000's to be what Roadrunner and Earache were to extreme metal in the early 90's.

Ok. Last one. Name an overrated metal band. Feel free to list as many as come to mind.

Every single band that is playing melodic metal with clean vocals and breakdowns. I hate every single one of these bands and it's the worst trend in metal today. Killswitch Engage, Unearth, Atreyu, every single one of them are so overrated and this is the trendiest worst sound in metal today that I can think of. It's impossible to limit it to one band. If you play melodic death metal with hardcore breadowns and clean vocals, your band is overrated and sucks. Just watch Headbangers Ball. Every big band today has this sound.

Any final words?

Thanks so much for the interview. It is much apperciated. Thanks to anyone that supports the bands and releases on this label, who actually buys music today instead of downloading it. This label is not possible without the amazing bands and people that I have worked with and those who have helped me. The best is yet to come...