Let's get the big stuff out of the way. I guess it all started with Buddyhead, but there have been rumors floating around for months that Trustkill has sold a portion of the label to Sony or Columbia, etc. What is really going on? Are you still 100% in control of the label?

Buddyhead was wrong... surprise surprise. I have signed a distribution deal with RED, who is wholly owned by Sony. In the past they've distributed Epitaph and Roadrunner, and currently distribute Lookout, Fat Wreck Chords, Victory, Metal Blade, Artemis, and about 15 other labels. They are awesome people. In the "industry" they are actually considered an "indie", even though they are owned by a big company. You see, the definition of a "major distributor" is a label that owns their own distribution, and since Sony is not a record label, then RED is not major label distribution. But it's all semantics, and the only people that care are the "too-punk-for-you" type kids, so it's no big deal. RED is still a pretty huge company and have a lot of power, which is why I chose to go with them, and not stay where I was. They first called me about two years ago when Walls Of Jericho were kicking ass on the radio charts, doing big tours, and gaining a lot of really big press. One of the main dudes calls me and goes, "So hey, how come your bands are doing better than ours?" It was pretty funny. So here we are, two years later, and we finally signed a deal. It was about a six month negotiation process, there was lots of paperwork. In the end, I got a really good deal, so I am pretty excited. Rumors started flying around that Trustkill was being bought out or whatever because my lawyer and I had meetings with all the majors to see what kind of deals they were offering, and most of these majors wanted to just buy me out 100% and keep me on as President. We just went around to everyone to see what they had to say. I guess it would have been kind of cool, I mean, I get a bag of money and then get paid to run a label. But it seemed too premature for me, and I like to be in control. If anyone has been following the label, you know that I have been running this all by myself for eight years now, so I am kind of a control freak. I just couldn't imagine not being able to make daily decisions about my own label that I started from scratch. It would have been reeeeally weird. So I said "fuck it", let's see what we can do with the label to get amazing distribution, but keep me in control. And that is what we did. RED is helping me out financially so I can sign the bands I want to sign and give them what they deserve, and I can pay my bills. It's a win-win situation for everyone, and RED is just as stoked to have me as I am to be with them. It is a lot easier to get my records into bigger stores now, and do things for my bands that really want to play music as their jobs. I appreciate all the years and hard work that Lumberjack (my previous distributor) gave me, but it was time to move on. I still love all those guys and gals, and I tell all the upcoming labels that ask to go with them because they are awesome. But for Trustkill, where the label and all the bands were heading, it just didn't make sense anymore. If anyone is curious, I still run the label out of my basement in New Jersey, I don't have any huge high-rise in NYC or anything. I wake up, throw on some boxers (yes, I sleep naked), and walk downstairs, it rules. There aren't any Sony dudes hanging out in my basement with me looking over my shoulder. It is just me, Kyle, Timmy, and Tyson and Giselle (my two dogs, they're cute) doing what we do everyday, nothing has really changed. I've just been a hell of a lot busier lately moving over my entire back-catalog to RED, it is a royal pain in the ass.

How will these changes affect your average Trustkill consumer?

The changes really won't negatively affect any Trustkill consumers at all. All the prices of my CDs will be the same, in fact, they will probably be even cheaper. I'll explain; when I sell a CD wholesale to a smaller distribution like Lumberjack or Revelation, the CD has to go through multiple channels to get to a bigger store. At every step in the chain of distribution, someone has to make their cut. So, the price keeps going up. A CD that I get $6 for from a smaller distribution, ends up being $16.98 at Tower or Coconuts or something. It kinda sucks, but that's what happens. With RED, there is no chain of distribution, the CDs go direct from them to the big stores. As a result, I can still set my own price for every CD I release, and keep the prices low. The only one to get a cut is RED and maybe a "one-stop" if they use them, so the chain of distribution is smaller. And RED still sells to all the indie stores so everyone can get Trustkill CDs. Any store that does not have an account with RED can go through Trustkill directly. It's pretty simple. The biggest change is that kids everywhere will be able to buy Eighteen Visions and Hopesfall and all the other TK band's CDs. You see, hardcore kids that complain about labels selling CDs to bigger chain stores are usually kids who live in larger cities and have access to indie stores whenever they want. But the reality is that most kids in this country that listen to hardcore don't have mom-n-pop stores to shop at, all they have is Best Buy and Wherehouse and shit. So the only way for them to get smaller label's CDs is to mailorder them, and a lot of people don't like doing that, or don’t even know that they can do that. If a TK band wants to go on tour in the US and not lose their ass, they need to be able to play the Midwest, and the South, and other places where there aren't huge cities. If these kids can't find Trustkill CDs in these areas, then nobody will go to the shows. Now they can, and this really helps the bands, and that is what I always wanted since the beginning. I've always wanted to be able to have bands that can tour all the time. When I first started going to shows and listening to hardcore, I would go to "Tape World' at the mall and buy all the In-Effect and Hawker tapes like Token Entry, Sick Of It All, Pagan Babies, and more. I didn't realize that there was other hardcore out there because the music wasn't readily available to me. I want my bands to be readily available to everyone, and so do they.

Is the backlash among Trustkill fans something you consider when pondering dealings with major labels, etc?

Of course. Kids these days are very finicky, they will turn on you in an instant. But I didn't sign a deal with a major label, so there is really nothing for kids to turn their back on. Trustkill is still the same label run by the same dude that goes to the same shows every week. In fact, I have already released two albums through RED and I haven’t heard a single bad thing about it. The only new things I hear from people is, “Oh cool, I can actually buy your CDs in stores now instead of having to wait a few months until your bands come through to my city.” Even if I had signed with a major, as long as I didn't change the music I was putting out, or jack my prices up to $18.98, then I wouldn't see a problem with that anyway.

"Selling out." Words uttered by kids all the time. How do you define it?

"Selling Out" means changing what you believe in or what you do to appeal to someone else. A lot of bands have signed with major labels in the past and kids called them sellouts. I won't say who I think are sellouts, but bands that went with majors who never compromised their music, ended up maintaining their ethics and kept their fans. Bands like Samiam, Jawbreaker, Quicksand, and others, went to majors and never changed a thing. Why would that make them a sellout? Because they wanted to make a living off what they love? That is absurd. The guys in Hatebreed, Thursday, and Poison The Well, started these bands because they wanted to make music and tour. Now they are doing that for a living, and I think it is fantastic. None of those bands have changed their sound or their ethics. I commend them. Anyone who calls them "sellouts" are just jealous, or too selfish to share their favorite bands with the rest of the world.

TK's expansion in the last few years and its efforts to remain DIY: this has always been an issue with growing underground labels that are blessed with popularity and talent. Are you conscious of this dichotomy? If so, what do you to appease both sides (growing, but still being DIY)? Is it possible to be a large indie label and still DIY without compromising hardcore ethics or adopting a larger "corporate" music business model?

I think DIY is a great thing. That has always been my motto, I mean shit, if it wasn't, I would have hired people a long time ago, but I never did. Like I said before, I've been doing this alone for 8 years now. When a label is "blessed" (thanks Alex), it is inevitable that it is going to grow and its bands are going to thrive. More opportunities arise in the realm of bigger tours, endorsements, promotional campaigns, and more. The most important thing to me about running a label is keeping my bands happy. That to me is the DIY and "hardcore" ethic. The bands I sign WANT to get bigger, they WANT to sell more records, and they WANT bigger tours. If I can do these things for them, then I have succeeded. What isn't DIY about me calling up a few bands, managers, and booking agents and getting one of my bands on a tour with a big band? What isn't DIY about me designing my own ads and calling up a bigger magazine and submitting it to them? I think it is possible for an indie label to be large and still maintain the indie ethics. At the major label level, they release 5 or 10 new bands every 2 months, and 9 out of 10 of them fail miserably. The ones that fail, get dropped, and their careers are ruined. When I sign a band, they are here to stay. If an album doesn't do too well, they don't get dropped. If I had enough faith in them before I signed them, and I liked them enough to sign them, then I am not going to drop them.

Has hardcore shifted away from the music and message, and focused more on commercialism, bigger budgets, etc... ie. Style over substance?

I think maybe kids these days are forgetting, or better yet, not researching, their roots. It can be partly blamed on the fact that the general public's taste in music is changing. In 1991, when I turned on the radio and heard a Nirvana song with heavy tuned-down guitars, I was like "Oh my god, this is the end of the world." Nowadays, every other song you hear on the radio is Linkin Park or Papa Roach or Godsmack, all with huge heavy guitars and screaming. It's pretty crazy if you think about it. 10 years ago, a few kids would get together and start a hardcore band, and the thought never crossed their mind that they could do real tours and make a living out of it. Now that this is a possibility, and the thought is resting on the back of everyone's mind, bands have a different thought process when it comes to signing to a label, developing a sound, etc. I think kids have also gotten a lot smarter about things, meaning, they know about publishing, royalties, licensing, and other “ins and outs” of the music "biz". They know there is money to be made and they don't want to be a catalyst for some fatcat in a suit to buy his third yacht. So this new thought process has made our lives a little more difficult, because young bands see other bands that have similar sounds getting huge tours, huge recording budgets, huge endorsements, and they go, "Hey, I want that too. Get us that stuff." And sometimes we (indie labels) can't do it. Going back to the "roots” thing, a big problem with that is the introduction of the internet to the hardcore scene. Kids are doing zines less and less, and most of the information kids read about bands is read off the internet. Nothing is tangible anymore. A news bit is posted on a website and it is gone one week later. I still have stacks upon stacks of hardcore zines from the late 80s, I can go back and read every one and see exactly what all the bands were doing, what records came out, what labels were "cool", etc. How are kids going to research the music that is coming out today? This is a big problem. When I started listening to hardcore and punk rock when I was 12, not only did I buy all the new shit that was coming out, but I did some research and went out and slowly bought all the records that got the scene where it was at that point. I went out and picked up all the Bad Brains, Minor Threat, Misfits, Descendents, and Dead Kennedys records. I'm not sure if kids these days are doing that, and it's kind of sad in a way. I mean, I love it that all the kids are buying the new Hopesfall album (for instance), but the young kids should know the history of it all, how it all began, where it came from, and spend some of their money on the classics.

TK has obviously grown quite a bit since you began the label. Has the way you've searched for potential artists to add to the label changed since you've started? What about the criteria you have when looking for talent? Has that changed at all?

Yeah, it's changed a little bit. Over the years, I've gotten kind of agitated at some of the bands I've signed because I always ended up putting in more work than they did. Bands like Picturesque, SeventyEightDays, Idle Hands, and Spark Lights The Friction were all amazing bands and amazing people. They had the potential to go far, but never capitalized on their talent. I worked my ass off for those bands, and they quickly broke up right after the records were released. This happens all the time in the music world, but it sucks when it happens to you. I don't know if you ever noticed, but people don't buy records from bands that are broken up, especially if they didn't make a huge impact (see previous question). And bands that are only around for a few months generally don't make a big impact on anyone. So nowadays when I sign a band, one of the most important things is that the band will stay together, and the kids are serious about keeping the band going. I spend too much time, energy, and money on a band for them to break up right after I release a record. My criteria has stayed the same though, I mean, I still only sign bands I love. Trustkill has gotten big enough where I have gotten press kits from pretty big names that have been dropped by majors, and I could probably sell quite a few records if I signed them, but I don't. I still just sign bands that I feel are 100% genuine, are cool people, and are playing and writing music that has an emotional effect on me.

TK used to do vinyl for its releases. That stopped a while ago. Why did you decide to do that? Why outsource your vinyl releases to Good Life?

I'll be honest, vinyl is a pain in the ass. It is very expensive to make, and sells for half of what a CD sells for. Plus, most kids these days don't even own turntables. Now, the question is: Do kids not own turntables because the more prominent hardcore labels have stopped making vinyl? Maybe. Who knows. Don't get me wrong, I used to love vinyl, and I still have all of mine, I've never sold any of it. If I had the space, I might even have my turntable hooked up and I could listen to all of my old Chain Of Strength and Misfits vinyl and whatnot. I actually did press a lot of vinyl in the earlier years (go here to see it all), but as the years went on, I realized that it just wasn't selling as much as it did in the past. It seemed like all kids wanted was CDs. I licensed a few of my albums to Goodlife Records, Genet Records, and Sobermind Records, over in Europe. That was cool because the kids in Europe still appreciate vinyl, there is still enough demand over there to make it worthwhile. Recently, I have licensed vinyl in the states to some smaller up-and-comers like Ides Of March Records, Warmachine Records, and One Day Savior. I still do some vinyl and I've never said that I wouldn't do it in the future, but if another label asks to do vinyl for a certain album, sometimes it's easier to have them do it. Plus, in the case of the smaller labels, it helps them get their name out, and I usually only have friends of mine do them. Sometimes hardcore kids put too much emphasis on vinyl, they use it as like a rule of measurement of how "cool" a label is. If people measure a label by how much colored and limited vinyl they make, that is pretty silly. But the little kid in me still loves cool looking vinyl and I am talking to a band right now, that if everything works out, we are going to make some reeeeally kick-ass looking vinyl. It's gonna be fun. I also license my albums to smaller companies in Asia who manufacture cassettes. Right now, everyone who is reading this that is under 16 is going, “They manufacture what?!?!?”. That is right, cassettes! The things we used to buy when vinyl wasn’t cool anymore and before CDs came into the picture. It’s funny too, I gave Most Precious Blood a bunch of their album on cassette, and they put it on their merch table at shows, and kids are like, “Oh cool, MPB trading cards!”. Ha ha ha, they have no idea what it is.

How did Trustkill end up teaming up with Hot Topic for the TK CD Sampler?

As much as hardcore kids love to bash the whole "Hot Topic phenomenon," this store has been the saving grace of Trustkill. Let's go back to the fact that most places in the country don't have mom-n-pop stores... however, there is a Hot Topic store in every mall in the country. There are very smart people working at that company, and they invest a lot of time in learning what kids want. Before my deal with RED, I had a really hard time getting my CDs into chain stores, it was damn near impossible. But the people at Hot Topic knew that kids wanted Eighteen Visions and Poison The Well stuff (and the rest of the TK bands), so they ordered it all from Lumberjack. Kids around the country would hear Trustkill bands on the radio, see them live or on the internet, read about them in a magazine, but could never find their CDs in their local record stores because they weren't there. However, now all of the Trustkill stuff was finally available in Hot Topic, a place where every kid could go to find stuff. In the last year, Hot Topic has sold more Trustkill CDs than the big chains because they are the only stores in the malls that are carrying it. Now that the chains have wised up (heh heh) and have begun to carry Trustkill CDs, they may have some competition. I mean, yeah, the store is kinda cheesy, they sell all kinds of goth crap and goofy shit, but in order for hardcore to survive in a time where all networking has been boiled down to merely the internet, it is a great place for kids to buy hardcore records and merchandise. The exclusive Hot Topic Trustkill sampler was my idea, I just called them up and said, "Hey, you wanna do a Trustkill Sampler?". We had it out a few months later and it was a pretty big success. All the bands loved it, and the kids seemed to really like it too, and the best part was that anyone who wanted it could find it. I also gave away for free over 1000 of them on various websites, festivals, and other places. I think the interactive portion that my friend Todd did for it really set it apart from the other samplers there, and helped it a lot. Again, kids in larger cities are kinda spoiled when it comes to record buying, we take for granted that we can drive 5 minutes to the "cool and hip" indie store and pick up all the latest obscure records. I did the Hot Topic sampler so all the other kids in the country could hear my bands. You know how when you hear a new band you really like you make copies for all your friends and tell them all about it? Well, running a label is the same exact thing, just on a larger scale... I want everyone to hear all of my favorite bands.

The last time we spoke to you, you were juggling law school and TK. Am I correct in assuming you're now doing Trustkill full-time?

Yes, I am doing Trustkill full-time now. I never thought in a million years I could be a hardcore kid and still pay the rent. It's pretty sweet. I started the label in 1993 when I was a sophomore in college in Syracuse, NY. I put out my first record in the summer of 1994, graduated college in 1996, and then started law school in 1998. I graduated law school in the spring of 2001, so it has really only been one year that I have been doing Trustkill full time, the last 7 years I have been in school. Everyone always asks, "How the hell did you do the label while you were in law school???". Well, it was pretty difficult, but I managed to do it, and if it ever came down to it, I just wouldn't sleep, no big deal. I would have classes in the morning, come home at about 2:00, study for a few hours, eat dinner, and then work on the label all night. When I started law school the thought had crossed my mind to quit the label, but I knew that if I had done that, I'd be kicking myself 10 years later wondering how far I could have taken it. Obviously, now I am super happy that I kept it up. In fact, after law school I interviewed for a federal clerkship at the courthouse in New Jersey, and got it. About one month before it was to start, I called my judge and told him I was going to run my label instead. He was kinda pissed, but understood. In the end though, having a law degree has helped me out a lot with running the label. In law school my concentration was Intellectual Property (copyright, trademark, patents), and this area of law is extremely practical when you are dealing with bands, managers, booking agents, lawyers, etc. Of course, all my friends from law school went out and got jobs starting at six figures, and here I am running a hardcore label with a $65K loan to pay off… uuuggghhh.

Have you hired any employees yet?

Yes, a few months ago I hired my friend Kyle to help me out with the webstore. You see, for the last few years Lumberjack was handling all of my mailorder, but I wanted to launch my own webstore and start handling it all myself. Obviously, I couldn't run the label and be stuffing CDs all day, and Kyle didn't have shit to do, so I hired him. Then it got a little out of hand, and Kyle couldn't handle it all, this was when the new Eighteen Visions album came out in August. So we hired our friend Timmy. You have no doubt seen both of these losers before, as Kyle roadies for Nora, and Timmy roadied for Nora and now roadies for Dillinger Escape Plan.

Kyle and Timmy Trustkill

Kyle and I went to our first show together in 1987 when we were like 12, and have been friends for like 15 years or some shit. Both Kyle and Timmy used to like hardcore, but now they just play this really weird music all day. I swear to god at least 5 times a day I turn around and go, "What the fuck is this??!?!?"... and they then tell me it's some band that I've never heard of with some weird name like Mooney Suzuki or some shit. They're weird. Kyle is dressing up as Chunk from Goonies for Halloween, funny thing is, it's not all that far fetched, heh heh. Oh yeah, and I just hired my friend Dave who lives in Colorado, to do website maintenance. He played bass in the band I used to be in, and is a skateboard/snowboard fanatic. I think the only stuff he listens to is Gang Starr or something.

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