It's been nearly three years since we last interviewed Every Time I Die. We decided that was too long, so Drew Ailes called up ETID singer Keith Buckley to discuss a few things.

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How does Gutter Phenomenon differ from the previous releases?

There's so much more structure to it. Things that are memorable actually come back and remind you why they're memorable, as far as the parts go, and like, the lyrics and stuff like that. It's way different. It's so...it's not just, you're watching a train go by. This time you're actually a part of it for the whole time and there's hooks and things like that we never really experienced writing before. I think when we realized we had to step it up a notch we realized we couldn't just rest on our laurels and be like "Oh, bad song structure? Well, forget it. We're a noise band, so what do you expect?" People are expecting a little more, we've been doing it a little longer, so we're going to actually prove that we know what we're doing this time. Definitely last time happened accidentally where people thought we knew what we're doing and we had no idea. Now we're proving it.

I heard it described as a mixture of Motorhead and The Black Crowes running full force at each other.

Oh fuck yeah, that's good. There's a lot of elements of both of that.

I wasn't expecting a Motorhead influence. Or Black Crowes for that matter.

They're one of my favorite bands and everyone else in the band loves Motorhead, so I think it was just kind of fate that brought them together.

Is there any particular reason behind choosing the name Gutter Phenomenon?

I was reading this book that talks about cultural patterns and there was a writer in the fifties, I think his name was Harold Bloom? He said that rock n' roll was a gutter phenomenon and it was sort of deprecating American culture, and that it was a fluke and it'd be gone as soon as it came, and it was so sinful and people would realize the inherent terribleness of it and get rid of it. So it's kind of a jab in the side that it's still around. People now...rock n' roll has just come to revel in that fact. That it's so sinful, you know what I mean. It's actually saying, "You know? You're right. This is who we are and this is exactly why we're around, because everyone is like this."

Who handled the artwork for it?

That was our friends, they work for a company called Switzerland Design. They're actually out of Toronto and they're friends of ours. I grew up with them, I've known them from when I was eleven years old to fifteen. And then I kind of fell out of touch with them, and then found out coincidentally, our label was like "Oh, we've got this good bunch of design people we think you should work with." So I researched them and was like, holy shit, I know these kids. It worked out really well. Because then it makes it easier to be like, after you shoot the shit for a while and catch up on old times, it's like, "by the way, this sucks," and you don't feel bad about saying it because you know that they're friends. It's so much easier to communicate with them. You don't have to kiss their ass and say, "Okay, I know you have your design and you have your vision..."

You don't have to sugar coat it.

Yeah, you don't have to sandwich your comment...you don't have to be nice about discrediting them, you can just say "yeah, I'm not really into this."

You guys are all finished with recording, obviously, I guess that was about a month ago?

No, we only finished about three weeks ago.

Kind of a dumb question, maybe, but are you satisfied with it thus far?

Oh yeah. Ecstatic, very ecstatic. You know, it's good, because we had to leave the studio and go right to Europe, so we were corresponding with Machine (Lamb of God, Clutch, King Crimson) and producers through email and listening to downloads of our songs on really bad...components. Shitty little headphones and the bus sound system, which was awful. So we became happy with it, and then we got home and listened to it on our own speakers and we're like, "wow, I didn't even know this was in here, I forgot I did this," things like that. We learned to like the CD again, which is very important because I think that that's what makes a piece of music timeless, is when you find little things that you didn't know. On a microcosmic scale, that's hopefully what'll happen with this CD, that in a few years, after having it on their shelves, they'll be like, "hmm, let me give this another look."

Yeah, it's the replay value. Where bands can write great straightforward material that sticks in your head for a long time, but, why would you listen to it again if it's already in your head?

Yeah, absolutely.

So that was the European tour with Lamb of God, Unearth, and Caliban, right?

Yep.

How did that go?

That went great. We played the Download Fest which was probably the best show I ever played. It was my favorite show we've ever played. There were just thousands of people, all so gracious and appreciative and involved. I've never...you get kind of jaded doing shows and doing festivals and it's like, "alright, this is not getting through. Fuck them, if they don't understand it's their fault, not mine," but when you're actively wowed, it revitalizes you and you think, "I gotta remember why I did this in the first place. This is the big time." Download Fest, in front of all those people, that one set was bigger than any crowd at Ozzfest.

That was the fest that was like, REM? What was that like, playing alongside them, Maroon 5, and even...like...Papa Roach, shit like that.

<laughing> The dudes from Papa Roach, they hang actually.

Yeah, I've heard they're very cool guys.

Yeah, they are. They were coming out to the afterparties and stuff. Everyone else you didn't really see at all. So, it's kind of like, if you did catch a glimpse, it's like, "aw cool." That's all I really expected, I didn't think I'd...be friends with Michael Stipe. I'm not meeting him for dinner or anything.

I heard you adopted a dog out there.

Oh! We did adopt a dog. His name was Patrick. We found him walking around the woods.

His name was Patrick?

Well, we named him Patrick. We found him walking around the woods, we took him in and fed him some balogna. And then some weird German guy came up and he kept calling him "Charlie Brown" and he swept him away. So we were all kind of in disbelief and sad, but, his rightful owner came for him.

Kept calling the dog "Charlie Brown"?

Yeah, like <german accent> "Come here, Charlie Brown." This real scary German accent.

So how did My Chemical Romance's Gerard Way and Daryl Palumbo of Glassjaw/Head Automatica end up making an appearance on the album?

Daryl grew up with my roommates and some of my best friends right now, they grew up on Long Island together. So I've kind of known Daryl through association for a long time. And then...he always was just kind of joking around, "you should sing on the record," or when we'd play in town, "you should sing this part on stage," and he was always like, "yeah, I'd love to, I'd love to." Then it finally came when we were like, "alright, no bullshit. Do you want to be on the record?" and he was like, "yeah, absolutely." So he got a ride to the studio, it was like, ten minutes away from where he lived, and he came and seriously named the part in two takes. I was like, "sorry man, I expected it to take a little longer," so then uh...he just got high for the rest of the afternoon. Gerard, the same thing. I've been friends with him since we toured with them with American Nightmare, which was like, four years ago. This was...before they were the biggest band on the planet. So then, that had always been in the works. And then when they just took off, I was like, "aw man, I feel kind of shitty now asking them." It's like asking someone to perform a miracle because his schedule's so hectic. But then he was more adamant about it, he came up to me at one of their shows and was like, "you still want me to be on the record? Cuz I'm talking to my manager and I'm going to fly out and do this and do that." So it all worked out. They got home the day before we finished recording and I went and picked him up and went to the studio and did the part.

Have any of the bands you've toured with actually kind of rubbed off on you guys and put a little influence into the music?

Um...oh! I thought you meant like, rub off on us. Like, masturbate on top of us.

No, no, potentially. I know there's lonely days out there...

<laughing> Um, I think the new Dillinger Escape Plan record, when we were touring with them, had a big part in us saying "wow, this song actually has structure," and it's crazy and as hectic as they are. There's actually choruses. And it actually sounds incredible.

Yeah, I really like the new material. A lot of people, obviously as you've heard, so many people bitch about it.

Oh, fuck, they-

Honestly though, I don't care who hates me for saying this, but I think it's some of the best stuff they've written.

I absolutely do too. I thought that honestly when I heard it, it was almost like a perfect record for me. It had everything that I wanted to hear. So I think that rubbed off on us, that it was possible to have structure.

Yeah, it's not a metal album as it is...

I don't even know what it is! It's not an metal album, but just a great album.

I remember last time, this is for Lambgoat.com. I think John interviewed you guys before and there ended up being some sort of shit-flinging between the guys on the messageboard, coming back at you.

That was all in fun.

Yeah, people seem to dwell on that. But I just wondered...your band kind of polarizes people. You've got extremely devoted fans and people who absolutely hate you. How do you handle the people who are really critical?

The difference now is that happens naturally, whereas before we worked to do that.

Worked to get people to hate you?

Yeah, we worked to polarize people. But now, I think it comes naturally. There's no point in antagonizing it. Really, it just wastes energy. There's so much more positive stuff you could be doing with your time than worrying what people are saying on a messageboard. So, I hope that last time all the people who were offended realize I was just joking around and it was all in good fun. But, right now, I don't dwell on it. I don't read messageboards, I don't follow my band on the internet, you know.

I'd imagine that would drive you insane if you spent time looking it up.

Yeah, you can't let yourself do that. It's going to make you crazy. So I just do what I do. The whole world could hate me right now and I'd have no idea because I don't really ask. I don't care. I do what I do.

On the other hand, as far as...I'm sure you have star-struck kids coming up to you, asking for autographs and that kind of thing. What is that like for you? How do you handle that?

It's funny. It's fun. I remember being...in that position and seeing somebody in a band and being like, "oh my god, it's them." I'm sure everyone that's in a band now has had a bad experience with meeting someone in a band before, and it could've happened when you're 12 years old and you STILL remember that, you know?

And you hate that band forever.

Yeah! You hate that band, and you hate everything about them, and it sucks because you want to like them, and you want to be able to listen to their music, and you want them to be as cool as you think they are. And you know, it doesnt take much to just say "thank you," to somebody and to let them know that you appreciate it. But so many people are intent on making themselves like, "aw, dude. Rock n' roll badass. Fuck these little kids," y'know? That's just lame. Because...it's just damaging...

And you wouldn't be there if it weren't for those little kids anyway.

Exactly, exactly. So, I just think it's funny and I take it all in stride. But my girlfriend hates it.

<laughing> Really? Just hates any attention you get from...

<laughing> Just...yeah, hates little girls' attention.

Yeah well, that's what girlfriends are good at.

Yeah, exactly.

As far as the Sounds of the Underground festival goes, are there any bands you're really excited to tour with?

Yeah, I'm really excited. Poison The Well, we toured with them so long ago and I'm really excited to see them again. From Autumn To Ashes, same thing. And I'm excited to see Gwar because I've never seen them in my life. So it'll be good, I'll get to see them every night.

I know you get a lot of questions about your lyrics, and from what I've read in other interviews you've said that it's just kind of nonsense rambling.

Not so much this time. I was actually very very involved in the....the pretenses of these lyrics, it wasn't like, "I'll write it and see what everyone says." This time it was more guided. So I was like, you know what, this could be the best chance I have in my life to...it's like, therapeutic. Where it's like, this is going to serve a purpose. I'm tired of just writing whatever comes to my head and letting other people figure it out for me. If I have something to say, let me make sure I utilize it in the most effective way. So it's definitely not just rambling anymore.

Is there a theme or anything you're working with?

No, not really. It was definitely one of the best points in my life when this album was being written. I met somebody that actually totally changed my life, so I wasn't bummed out or regretting things all the time anymore. So it was actually a much more optimistic standpoint, but at the same time, I was able to look back and be like, "wow, I was a fucking miserable person for a long time," and I had no idea because I just got so used to being miserable. So I guess that's really the point of it, getting so lost that it becomes redundant and second nature to just...be unhappy. It sounds...fucking, every cliche in the book. Emerging from a caccoon...

<laughing>

But it really was. It's not even like, "oh my god, I'm so happy now," it was like, "wow, I'm a fucking asshole and I've been an asshole for such a long time." There's a lot of making fun of myself, and there's a lot of taking myself apart. Like I said, it was as therapeutic as writing can get, because I really had to face a lot of those demons and deal with it.

Of course. So you did more of a conventional lyrical approach?

Yeah, yeah. But the style is still the same. I'm very proud of that. It was very relieving that I could actually write with some intent and still have the same style.

As far as your style goes...I imagine you probably read quite a bit.

Yep.

Are there any other lyricists or writers in general that you sort of look up to or take inspiration from?

Yeah, there's a lot. This sounds shitty, but many in the...scene we're touring with. I think it's probably because the only way you ever look up to someone is before you really get to know them. So I'm sure before I met Greg from Dillinger, and before I met Jake from Converge, and before I met Wes from American Nightmare/Give Up The Ghost, I was like, "wow, these guys lyrics are fucking awesome." But then I met them, it was like, "okay," now it's not like I really look up to them, I just appreciate it. So you know, I still look up to like, Thom Yorke...and like...I don't know. Who else...who else do I like? Really, I just like his style. If I could pick one that I wish I could perfect, it would be something like that. He's definitely the most inspirational.

As far as authors go?

Authors. Lately, it's unfortunate, because I've been reading a lot of non-fiction. I really like Stephen Hawking. Howard Bloom, he wrote The Lucifer Principle and The Global Mind...which are two things I've been reading. Russ...uh...what the fuck is his name? A lot of historical fiction I can't remember right now. I'm sorry, I'm totally distracted. There's this band playing at Much Music right across the street and there are all these little girls screaming and I'm just watching.

You know what band it is?

No, I don't know, I don't know. It's just tons of girls standing in line.

Who knows.

Maybe it's for ME.

<laughing>

Yeah, just kick the guy on the microphone.

So yeah, as far as authors are concerned, I've really unfortunately not been reading a lot of inspirational to sort of get the mind going. It's more like, I feel like I've been out of school for so long that my studies have slacked. So it feels like I'm studying.

That was another thing I wanted to ask you about, as far as your schooling. I heard you were going to school to be an English teacher.

I did, I was. I graduated.

You were an English teacher?

Yes, I was an English teacher for a year.

Oh wow, how was that? What was...high school, middle school...?

High school, 9th and 10th grade English. It was awesome. I went and taught at my old high school.

That's excellent.

Yeah. It was such an experience. I still want to be a teacher someday, you know. I can't be in Every Time I Die when I'm 45 years old.

<laughing> Yeah, probably not. You probably wouldn't live that long in that case.

<laughing> I hope I'd give it up already. So I hope to go back, but I've realized I don't want to teach high school. I'm going to go back and get my doctorate and try and teach at a college level.

Yeah, I was going to ask what you think you'd be doing if you weren't in a band right now.

Yeah, I would definitely be teaching college English.

I noticed you haven't updated the tour journal in a while.  

I know! I know! And I feel bad. But we haven't been on tour in a while.

It's fine, it's fine. I just wanted to ask if there's any other writing you're currently doing.

Um, yeah, actually I am. I have a monthly article in Rocksound magazine from the U.K. called "Say Hey".

When did that start?

It started...this month will be the first one actually. So I've been contracted to write every month. Me and Corey from Slipknot have our own little thing. So I do that and...I kind of sometimes get hired by labels to write bands bios for them. It's weird, I don't know. I don't do that very much, I kind of turned down a lot of offers for that.

What were some of the bands?

All the bands on Ferret. There's a bunch of bands from Buffalo that asked me to do it for them. I did that for a little bit, but, I don't know. I wasn't really into it. I kind of hate bullshitting and flattering bands I don't even really like.

Yeah, I review albums, so...

Yeah, oh god, so you know.

So I'll hear something that I think is a pile of shit, but I know a lot people will like it...so I have to...I don't know. I can't just say, "I don't like this because it has these vocals and I don't like that kind."

Yeah, yeah.

Anyway. I know the band's kind of earned a reputation for being a little crazy. Have you ever encountered any sort of problems due to the reputation that your band has?

Oh yeah, it's hard to even get people to trust you in the first place when a reputation like that preceeds you. And it sucks because even when you're being serious everyone's like, "alright, are you fucking shitting with me, or...?" We just did this interview with Decibel magazine where they sent an interviewer to hang out with us today. And he's like, "Okay, you know, I have some old stuff to ask you that I thought was serious, I thought I got some serious answers, so I figure, you know. After all the made-up stuff you'll tell me today, maybe I'll just compile it." He honestly said this to me. I was like, "who said I'm going to lie to you? We're hanging out, you're going to see me in action. I'm not going to go to a yard because I want you to write I go to yard sales, I'm not going to do anything that I don't want to do," it just sucks...

Yeah, you're going to go to juggling courses or something?

<laughing> I'm gonna go...hah, it just sucks because when people say that it's like, "alright, so what if I want to be serious? You don't take me seriously."

I didn't read...too many...I mean, I read whatever interviews I could find on the internet before I composed these questions here. But the only one where it seemed like it was kind of hard to decipher what you guys were talking about through the masturbation references and everything, was just when you guys were all together after a show or before you were about to play.

You've gotta time it right. Well wait, which one was it?

I don't remember, there was like, two or three of them.

Okay, yeah. When you get all of us together, it's really a lot more difficult to be serious because we all just play off each other so much. Nobody in the band takes themselves seriously, still, but, we do understand now that after doing this, I don't want to read just some shit that some guy's just feeding to somebody because they think they have a reputation to uphold. Like we said, I actually have things to say sometimes and I've come to appreciate the job that interviewers do, and I know it's not fun for them and I know it's sometimes actually work. So I'm not just going to sit around and bullshit with them and just make things up just to amuse myself. Now that we have Lambgoat, a lot of people read Lambgoat. And we just wrote a record that we want people to pay attention to, so we're not going to put anybody off from that.

Everybody said, "be prepared to get some bullshit nonsense answers from them."

No, no, no. Not at all. I'm in a great mood today. It's awesome out and I'm in Toronto with my girlfriend shopping. I don't feel like being an asshole and having someone be like, "alright, that's enough, I'm going to go."

I'd probably take it anyway. I'm pretty good with dealing with people, well. Half the time I'm that guy feeding people random lies and shit like that.

Yeah. So when the band's together, it's a different story. I will still admit to that. We get carried away.

I wanted to know how you ended up in the band and if you've always been a fan of heavier music.

Yeah, yeah, I have. The first time I did anything with music was a Metallica cover band with some kids in middle school. So me and Jordan, my brother, we had always gone to shows. So we're just like...just for fun. Just to play music. We realized there wasn't a band in Buffalo doing the sort of thing that me and the guys that are in the band liked. There wasn't anybody doing that. We just got kind of sick of hearing these...slow...D-crunch breakdowns. Either that, or just fast old-school. It's kind of getting old, so we tried to do something different. I was kind of like, "do you know anybody?" and he was like, "yeah," and we all just met. We didnt even have to think about it. It wasn't like "lets try this out," it was like, "alright, now that we're here, we have to make this work." And that was the attitude through the whole thing. It was never like, "this could go wrong, we don't have to do this." No, that wasn't an option. We had to do it, and we had to make it work. And we stuck it out and seven years later, we're left with a fucking shitty band name that we thought of when we were fifteen.

Where did that come from?

Nowhere. That was such nonsense, just, somebody said it at a practice, <in a gritty stoned voice> "hey, that sounds kinda cool, man."

Yeah, half the questions I got when I asked people what to ask you were along the lines of, "so how many times exactly have you died?"

Ohhhhhh yeah, that's like a grandparent joke. "Hey? What's your band name?" Haven't heard that one before.

What was the relationship with your band to Parade of the Lifeless? Is there one actually?

No, no. He just said that I think...I don't know, I don't know. I dont think I ever heard that band. The drummer was in it, I think, our drummer played shows with them or something?

Yeah, I think he played in a band that a member of theirs went on to. Something really convoluted. Just sort of a dumb off-handed question...

Yeah, six degrees of Kevin Bacon. I wonder if somehow we could, somehow, through six steps, get Kevin Bacon in our band.

You could tour with the Bacon Brothers I guess.

Oh! That's right.

Yeah, the Bacon Brothers. Don't tell me you forgot about them.

When I think of brothers bands, I think of Flutie Brothers. The old quarterback, he had a band.

My friend played basketball with him, actually.  

Did he really?

Yeah, somewhere in Massachusetts.

I ate his cereal.

He has cereal?

Yeah, he has Flutie Flakes.

Flutie Flakes?

Yep. Delicious. The winning combination.

What kind of cereal was it?

Frosted Flakes. Where there's just curly hair on it instead of sugar.

Perfect, perfect. Oh Doug Flutie. They just shave the guy for every box.  What about your crusade to make one of your friends famous?

Uh...he didn't deserve it. <laughing> We came back and it had totally gone to his head. He was like an egomaniac! We were like, "dude, this is a joke. You at least owe us a thank you," and he was like, "Nah, dude. I'm gettin' laid," and he's all going to parties like a celebrity.

I heard you guys were going to rent out a billboard.

Yeah, we were. We were. When he was really humble and modest about it, but then we come back from a tour after promoting his face everywhere and he's like, out of control. He's like a scenester.

That's terrible.

Yeah. We created a monster. We thought he could handle fame, and that it'd be funny to put a guy like that in a situation where people recognize him, but he's getting laid all the time...he's going to New York City parties...movie premieres in L.A.....

What? Really?

No, I'm kidding.

Oh, alright. For a minute there I was shocked. So, final couple of questions. What have you been listening to lately, and is there anything unexpected or particularly amazing that you have a sudden urge to promote?

I've been listening to...I don't even know. I listen to the worst music as jokes. I've been listening to Ruben Studdard's single, Sorry For 2004, which I just heard for the first time in 2005, so I guess it's kind of outdated.

Well, I think Ruben Studdard's kind of timeless.

<laughing> Yeah, right. Well it sucks he actually put a stamp on it as 2004. But no, that's only the year he was sorry for I guess. He's not sorry for any other years preceeding or following.

And there's no reason he should be sorry for those years, he's been Ruben all the way.

But those are the years of the hot tubs and the dance clubs.

Definitely. Are those part of the lyrics?

Yeah. You know what I am really big into? That Emanuel CD is really good, on Vagrant, that Machine recorded. He kinda got me into it because he was showing us what he did and it's really good. I'll promote that, I'll give that a plug. I can't think. All these questions I know and then ten minutes later I'm going to remember something I really want to say, so I'm going to cut my losses and be like, "nope, that's it." You know what I do want to add as a final thing?

What's that?

I got calls from the management and publisher and stuff like that after I had made a comment. We were asked to comment about the death of Dimebag Darrell. And I had said a bunch of stuff, but in conclusion, I said, "why did Pantera break up in the first place?" And a lot of people were like, "that's so fucking insensitive," trashing me because I said that. And I want to reiterate that I didn't mean it like that. I meant that, it was such a petty argument that led to like, one person's regret for the rest of their life that they never got the opportunity to patch something up with one of their best friends. And I thought it was just really petty, and I wanted to point that out as an example. Don't even let anything like that slip or get away from you. Make sure you handle that stuff, because this shit is going to happen and you're going to regret it the rest of your life. I didn't mean it like, "oh, why did they break up 'cuz now I'm not going to get to hear their music," I meant...think about the pettyness that ensued that caused them to not be friends, and he'll never get a chance to rectify that. So I want to make that clear, because I got a lot of shit for that and that wasn't what I meant at all.

Anything else you want to add?

No, that's it, I'm going to go get some lunch. It was great talking to you, and thank you for the opportunity.